Who's the worst American president of all time?
Login to post a new topic and to write a reply.
Thread Tools


Search within thread:

Rate This Thread
Login to rate this thread.
#31 (permalink)      9/14/2021 11:46:58 AM US Central   quote/reply + tips
Plzdie
Member
  • JoinedSep 2021
  • Posts 204
  • Reviews 0
  • Kudos53
Tony215 wrote:

Carrion you're really breaking my heart here...
Trump may have been a character and dramatic...
But he was himself and transparent... And for a politician, that's the closest you'll get to honesty..
He was the only president in recent times that actually took action... answered questions, and talked specifics openly. He tried hard.. Kinda opened my eyes to how bad the far left is.. They want to make us all poor and dependent on them.., so they can have further control over us... They are selling our futures away to China for market shares..
Trump actually wanted to push American nationalism and wanted more for US citizens, instead of giving all our money away to other countries.. All those Mexican illegals he kept at bay.. (Though sure, they should have the right to 'want' a better life..) But it just makes things harder for those already native to the US.. Democrats don't want the Mexican illegals in the US out of the 'kindness of their hearts' ...its a ploy.. They just want them here because giving them citizenship will assure them more votes...they wont feel the effects of it. (They're rich.) I will though.. Middle class.. Having pride as an American Nationalist does not make you an ignorant racial bigot...Dems control the news, manipulate the hell put of us, fear us into submission, stuff progressive racial equality and LgBTQ bs down our throats instead of letting it happen naturally..news journalism is intended to be unbiased.. Far from it now.. Not to be conspiracy guy, but all that Big Brother is watching shit gets more real all the time... Trump at least had the backs of the mid class n small business.. Do not forget the true stats.. Before covid, during Trump's term.. We had the best economy going recorded in decades.. Those opposing Trump set all that Covid shit in motion... How can you oppose him.. I hate all politics deep down... And ultimately, its a fine line between left and right.. but a wide one between have and have not.. He was the lesser evil, and still is...



Plzdie

#32 (permalink)      9/14/2021 11:47:01 AM US Central   quote/reply + tips
Avatar
carrion4worm
Member
  • JoinedAug 2017
  • Posts 3925
  • Reviews 281
  • Kudos2412
+1 details
A few eggs like Manchin and Sinema are responsible for the lolly gagging. I hate it as much as anyone, and most people accuse those two of being what?

"Corporate Democrats", or "GOP lite" , lol.

Hey, you said the parties were basically the same...really those two jackasses are different from the party they supposedly stand for.

Edited on 9/14/2021 at 11:48 AM. Reason:
What does he mean when he says words?
#33 (permalink)      9/14/2021 12:43:21 PM US Central   quote/reply + tips
Avatar
airwinny
Member
  • JoinedSep 2014
  • Posts 8593
  • Reviews 224
  • Kudos31055
+1 details
Once you realize there will always be a Joe Manchin (and when he fell in line, they invented a parliamentarian for god's sake), you'll view the world through a different lens :)

This text struck me as particularly accurate:
#34 (permalink)      9/14/2021 5:45:34 PM US Central   quote/reply + tips
Avatar
carrion4worm
Member
  • JoinedAug 2017
  • Posts 3925
  • Reviews 281
  • Kudos2412
...and big, giant nets catch all the fish! I prefer to stay grounded, avoid "conspiracy" talk, and try to make sense of what we have...grandiose ideas are great for quotes and literature, but pretending like both parties are ANYWHERE close to the same in America is just you saying you've never been to America.

Night and Day, dude. Night and Day.

But I'll give you this , MANY Democrats are weak and spineless, and are too polite and honest at times, but it costs them, lol! What a world we live in... Tony215 up there was speaking about Trump, when in reality, all Trump "fans", IF they were politically savvy, would know that Biden is as close to a Conservative (read: like Trump!) President as they're likely to get for several years! They even had similar ideas on several things...of course, most know that Trump was Democrat until the 90's or so...so, he would have a few "hold-over" ideas....

Biden is too Milk-toast for one group, too "radical" for another, lol...He's Definitely not pleasing the "progressive" crowd, for sure. In truth, Biden is like most Americans - in the middle somewhere.
What does he mean when he says words?
#35 (permalink)      9/14/2021 7:29:00 PM US Central   quote/reply + tips
Avatar
airwinny
Member
  • JoinedSep 2014
  • Posts 8593
  • Reviews 224
  • Kudos31055
+3 details
carrion4worm wrote:

but pretending like both parties are ANYWHERE close to the same in America is just you saying you've never been to America.


Lived there for several years, canvassed for Obama in 2008, when I was younger and didn't know any better.

The man then was elected and proceeded to have Citibank vet his cabinet, bombed half the planet, deported more people than any president before or after him, locked up children in cages, the motherfucker literally lobbied to LOWER the minimum wage in Haiti to 30 cents an hour, made Bush's ludicrous corporate tax cuts permanent, (funny fact there, these tax cuts were set up to expire automatically, Obama literally had to act to make them permanent), ensured that banks are too big to prosecute, and with an overwhelming majority in both House and Senate he failed to reinstate Glass Steagall and with that same super-majority (a filibuster proof senate!) he gave the people a watered down version of Romney-Care, which only ensured a huge increase in corporate profits and made universal healthcare a utopian pipedream.

Those are just a few of the things that actually happened. I could go on all day like that.
You can shrug that off as "conspiracy talk", to me it just means you're not paying enough attention to what's happening in your country, right in front of your own eyes. You're unaware of how much the overton window has shifted to the right in your country the last few decades. Biden's not in the middle of anything, he's to the right of literally every Dutch politician on a plethora of issues.

At the start of this year, after two Georgia dems won their Senate seats due to a list of promises made by Biden, Congress passed a stimulus bill. That stimulus bill passed with zero republican votes. Zero. Yet, the dems still managed in that bill to cut unemployment benefits, lower the stimulus check and made sure a large group of people were excluded from it, they removed the $15 minimum wage, and removed the promised student loan relief. All in a bill that passed with zero republican votes.

That's some masterful negotiating, in the midst of a pandemic. Trump's awful, but he has given people more covid relief in 2020 than Biden has in 2021.

A few weeks after that ludicrously watered down stimulus bill, the military budget was yet again expanded with billions and billions of dollars, unanimously. Night and Day? Sure, in the north of Alaska in December.

#36 (permalink)      9/14/2021 8:11:02 PM US Central   quote/reply + tips
Avatar
carrion4worm
Member
  • JoinedAug 2017
  • Posts 3925
  • Reviews 281
  • Kudos2412
Things change. Youre living in the past a bit, maybe. Your grudge with Obama is your grudge, and he's out of office. We have current crisis that need attention now.

right now, there is only one viable party. The other is in la-la land, and you know it. They won't even accept basic facts and truths, and are attacking voting rights RIGHT NOW. Doing nothing is not an option just because everyone doesn't have their favorite guy in office.

Do I wish the Democratic Party was more forceful? Maybe...Do I want them/us to resort to GOP style gerrymandering to stay relevant, or attack our voting system because they lose sometimes? No.

If that happens, if BOTH parties lose all sense of decency, then perhaps other plans need to be made...but I'm almost 50, doing well, and don't need no shit in my final 30 years, dammit!

and, to @Tony215: I noticed you said Trump was "more honest"...You are aware there are people that actually tally things like lies told while in office? Well, in 4 years, Trump was checked by Politico to have lied over 30,000 times....yes, 30,000 times. He rarely speaks a sentence without at least one fib....

Edited on 9/14/2021 at 8:14 PM. Reason:
What does he mean when he says words?
#37 (permalink)      9/14/2021 9:14:00 PM US Central   quote/reply + tips
Avatar
airwinny
Member
  • JoinedSep 2014
  • Posts 8593
  • Reviews 224
  • Kudos31055
$0.02 rebate earned+4 details
carrion4worm wrote:

Things change. Youre living in the past a bit, maybe. Your grudge with Obama is your grudge, and he's out of office. We have current crisis that need attention now.


Nah, not a grudge, not living in the past. Just some clear examples of how the DNC gaslights the US electorate. In the present, Biden is to the right of Obama. It's only getting worse.

The difference between denying climate change, and accepting it but not doing anything to combat it, is purely performative. In reality the results are the same: my kids won't have a happy future.

I'm a little over 40, and in my entire lifetime I can't recall one US bill passing that was purely in the interest of the general public. I'm just amazed how few Americans are pissed off. Well, many are pissed off, but mostly as some weird part of a blue vs. red political team sport, two teams who serve the exact same corporate masters. Most propagandized people in the world, sadly enough. And I genuinely don't mean that as an insult. It's heartbreaking to watch.

#38 (permalink)      9/14/2021 11:18:16 PM US Central   quote/reply + tips
Avatar
carrion4worm
Member
  • JoinedAug 2017
  • Posts 3925
  • Reviews 281
  • Kudos2412
Almost half the country think it's the equivalent of a football game, where it's "just win", even though they don't even know the rules of the "game"

i blame a lot of that on the "Trump" factor. "Oh look, it's that guy from tv!" Idiots stills think he was something OTHER than a buffoon, which is laughable. The fool just commented that if he had Robert E.Lee's great mind, he would have "defeated" Afghanistan...which isn't even the dumbest thing he said this week!

I think that "far left", which you obviously lean toward, is a tough proposition in today's America. Their naive, untested "solutions" only sound good to a small grpup of acolytes....things HAVE to meet in the middle somewhere, that's how govt. is meant to work. Blaming The Dems for trying to work together with the GOP may have seemed harsh at one time, but now, action is required and GOP stonewalling and Corporate Dems are in the way....but this is early, and already I'm sure this will be a more productive 4 year period than the last - it won't take much more.

It sounds like you have kids in the US? If so, you know that just giving up is not an option!

EDIT: Goodbye, Larry Elder! Maybe next Recall!

Edited on 9/15/2021 at 12:13 AM. Reason:
What does he mean when he says words?
#39 (permalink)      9/15/2021 1:52:28 AM US Central   quote/reply + tips
Avatar
TheAtl
Member
  • JoinedApr 2016
  • Posts 8774
  • Reviews 10
  • Kudos20281
From where I am sitting the problem seems to be more so systemic than a product of individuals and their actions. A first past the post voting system inherited from their previous colonial master, a relentless onslaught against unions that only accelerated after the fall of the Soviet Union and the Reagan revolution, the decoupling of the democratic party from the already weakened unions in order to attract large corporate donors (Clintionism), Citizens United exacerbating the influence of big money in politics... I'm far too ignorant and lazy to to do a write up of the whole history of the US from a settler colony to a modern superpower, but hopefully I got the idea across more or less.

Don't get me wrong, I'm fully open to the possibility that trying to enact meaningful change within the confines of a system rigged against what you are trying to do is an entirely futile endeavor (after all, most large scale reform had never been possible without immense outside pressure), but I still find it highly unreasonable to write off every politician as being cut from the same cloth.

Idealism is good and all, but by imposing idealist standards on someone who is bound by the dirty nature of realpolitik one is setting oneself up for disappointment. Force The Vote serves as one such example, where people got really upset at AOC et al. (The Squad) for not committing a political suicide that would have accomplished absolutely nothing.

Edited on 9/15/2021 at 2:21 AM. Reason:
"My brain is still in recovery mode from taking in so many high level, important ideas" - Dave Rubin
#40 (permalink)      9/15/2021 1:59:06 AM US Central   quote/reply + tips
Avatar
TheAtl
Member
  • JoinedApr 2016
  • Posts 8774
  • Reviews 10
  • Kudos20281
I started writing that post before you two had begun your discussion, went on my morning run and then completed it without refreshing the page first. Don't mind me and please carry on.

Edited on 9/15/2021 at 2:02 AM. Reason:
"My brain is still in recovery mode from taking in so many high level, important ideas" - Dave Rubin
#41 (permalink)      9/15/2021 6:29:02 AM US Central   quote/reply + tips
Avatar
carrion4worm
Member
  • JoinedAug 2017
  • Posts 3925
  • Reviews 281
  • Kudos2412
+1 details
It's done, in my mind. Expecting someone who visited another country to have a complete understanding of why a country is the way they are is folly. It would be like me commenting on Spain's government because I spent a summer there.

The USA can't be as liberal as Europe. Police walking around with no guns in the us?

Dead meat. Lol. However, I fully appreciate those far left types, it just has never taken hold in the USA, so any dissapointment that the us political spectrum isn't "left" enough is theoretical, not even a bit anecdotal.

I've been on both sides, and switched for a reason. I agree with airs post to Tony, and in that context, he is correct. Politics ain't sports, and winning is not winning..

Still, the main argument was that the parties are virtually the same. They are, in a few policy choices. But that's it. Night and day. Anybody living here can plainly see that, ineffective? Yes. The same? Hardly, in many many regards.

Edited on 9/15/2021 at 6:31 AM. Reason:
What does he mean when he says words?