Old mech tubes never die ;) (in MIXX mix)
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#31 (permalink)      11/8/2021 6:51:14 PM US Central   quote/reply + tips
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vape8ion
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. And what is your second best choice



My second choice is either the Broadside...which was high maint. Or a Wismec Noisy Cricket because it hit like a freight train, but was unreliable over time.

I'm out.....have some fun. Eh?
#32 (permalink)      11/9/2021 12:44:26 PM US Central   quote/reply + tips
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Troepfler
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zarck wrote:


0.5ohm seems a bit high, my copper SMPL clone with spring gives 0.0-0.1ohm for the button and 0.0-0.1ohm for the mod from top to bottom. which would read as around 0.05ohm +-0.05ohm. My multimeter is in the lower professional grade.


Because to measure small Ohms is difficult, I changed to measure volts.
On 3 SMPLs battery voltage was 4.00 Volts (0 to 20 Volts range),
with the switch in row it was the same.
(but this was without load).
I only use small used LG MH 10A flat top.
Sometimes I get the contact (Edit: with some and few mods), sometimes not, even with Nemesis.
2 older Panasonic heavy used PF 10A do not show this and hit harder.
Very strange.
Perhaps a button top is better for a hybrid mod, or LG has a problem?
New Samsung 29E will arrive in 3 days.


Edited on 11/9/2021 at 1:35 PM. Reason:
#33 (permalink)      11/9/2021 2:44:37 PM US Central   quote/reply + tips
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zarck
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Troepfler wrote:

Because to measure small Ohms is difficult, I changed to measure volts.On 3 SMPLs battery voltage was 4.00 Volts (0 to 20 Volts range),with the switch in row it was the same.(but this was without load).I only use small used LG MH 10A flat top.Sometimes I get the contact (Edit: with some and few mods), sometimes not, even with Nemesis.2 older Panasonic heavy used PF 10A do not show this and hit harder.Very strange.Perhaps a button top is better for a hybrid mod, or LG has a problem?New Samsung 29E will arrive in 3 days.



It all depends on what you want to show.

Think the picture is starting to clear from my point o view. I would say you use the wrong batteries.

So say you have a 0.5ohm build (to keep within the LG specs).
that's 4.2v, 0.5ohm, which gives 8.4A. ~35W (descent vape)



So look at the 7A curve, it shows that the voltage will drop down to below 3.8v pretty much instantly (and yes, it will be slightly worse as we use 8A in our example)

So that will instead give 3.8v 0.5ohm 7.6A and ~28w quite a bit weaker vape experience.

Your issue is a poor choice of battery. Sad to say the 29E is not that much better.

Let us look at a more suitable cell, like Molicel P26A


Here you see that the instant voltage drop at ~7A is just down to 4v (which gives 8A and 32w, more like what we expected).

#34 (permalink)      11/10/2021 9:27:07 AM US Central   quote/reply + tips
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zarck wrote:

Troepfler wrote:
Because to measure small Ohms is difficult, I changed to measure volts.On 3 SMPLs battery voltage was 4.00 Volts (0 to 20 Volts range),with the switch in row it was the same.(but this was without load).I only use small used LG MH 10A flat top.Sometimes I get the contact (Edit: with some and few mods), sometimes not, even with Nemesis.2 older Panasonic heavy used PF 10A do not show this and hit harder.Very strange.Perhaps a button top is better for a hybrid mod, or LG has a problem?New Samsung 29E will arrive in 3 days.

It all depends on what you want to show.

Think the picture is starting to clear from my point o view. I would say you use the wrong batteries.

So say you have a 0.5ohm build (to keep within the LG specs).
that's 4.2v, 0.5ohm, which gives 8.4A. ~35W (descent vape)



So look at the 7A curve, it shows that the voltage will drop down to below 3.8v pretty much instantly (and yes, it will be slightly worse as we use 8A in our example)

So that will instead give 3.8v 0.5ohm 7.6A and ~28w quite a bit weaker vape experience.

Your issue is a poor choice of battery. Sad to say the 29E is not that much better.

Let us look at a more suitable cell, like Molicel P26A

Here you see that the instant voltage drop at ~7A is just down to 4v (which gives 8A and 32w, more like what we expected).



32 Watts are 14.3% more than 28 Watts with the right battery, right?
And Mooch shows on
https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/attachments/82b00c1e-04d0-4e60-9508-7cb72bae896e-jpeg.889009/
Molinel P26A is the best choice.

On
http://www.dampfakkus.de/akku_auswahl.php
the Molinel is not listed.
Where I can find something similar to dampfakkus on Moochs website?

25 Amps batteries are used in power tools with a high start drain.
Same like mech mods.
Should we use only 20 Amps plus batteries for mech mods?

#35 (permalink)      11/10/2021 10:48:50 AM US Central   quote/reply + tips
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@ cilika,
please think about to give your thread a new title,
perhaps "Mech Mods".
We see, there are questions about cleaning, batteries,
and in the next step perhaps atties and new mods and pics.
I think, less than 5% of the FT-users use mech mods,
that will keep the thread very small.
#36 (permalink)      11/10/2021 4:18:03 PM US Central   quote/reply + tips
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zarck
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Troepfler wrote:


32 Watts are 14.3% more than 28 Watts with the right battery, right?
And Mooch shows on
https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/attachments/82b00c1e-04d0-4e60-9508-7cb72bae896e-jpeg.889009/
Molinel P26A is the best choice.

On
http://www.dampfakkus.de/akku_auswahl.php
the Molinel is not listed.
Where I can find something similar to dampfakkus on Moochs website?

25 Amps batteries are used in power tools with a high start drain.
Same like mech mods.
Should we use only 20 Amps plus batteries for mech mods?



Yes, something like 14.3% or so for the first hit. And even more for the second (as you see the first battery also has a way steeper curve down to being discharged).

I really don't follow mooch as much as I probably should (as I tend to look at datasheets instead, and they are not always that correct when it comes to the way vapers use the cells. Wich is the point where mooch shines the most).

Haven't heard of dampfakkus prior to this, although they do have the P26A in their system, just no data on the currents that you can compare in the page you linked.

http://www.dampfakkus.de/akkutest.php?id=697

(and your link with molicel p26a)
http://www.dampfakkus.de/akkuvergleich.php?akku1=697&akku2=0&akku3=0&akku4=0&akku5=0&akku6=0

Not sure that you can make that generalization, But it's probably a good rule of thumb to not even look at cells below 20A (unless you really want to and perhaps find the magic cell that contradicts the fact) and then compare on a case by case basis (or follow moochs recommendations).

#37 (permalink)      11/11/2021 3:47:07 PM US Central   quote/reply + tips
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Ordered 3 Molinel P26A, 4.49 EUR, not expensive.
Will compare to new Samsung 29E.
I do not think, I will find an about 14% difference.

On
https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/blogs/mooch.256958/
click: Mechanical Mod Voltage Drop Table
you will find the better mods, ok do not buy Wismec.
But do I need that?
#38 (permalink)      11/11/2021 4:33:07 PM US Central   quote/reply + tips
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zarck
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Troepfler wrote:

Ordered 3 Molinel P26A, 4.49 EUR, not expensive.
Will compare to new Samsung 29E.
I do not think, I will find an about 14% difference.

On
https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/blogs/mooch.256958/
click: Mechanical Mod Voltage Drop Table
you will find the better mods, ok do not buy Wismec.
But do I need that?



That was a really good price, I got mine for almost twice the amount and I thought they were pretty cheap at that.

It's a good reference if you need it? From what I read I do think it's possible to get your SMPL to work just fine. Although it does sound like it needs a new spring. It really shouldn't matter if you press one side or the other as it should move vertically no matter how you push it and get a good flat connection with the battery.

#39 (permalink)      11/11/2021 6:13:32 PM US Central   quote/reply + tips
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4.49 EUR:
https://www.ttt48.de/akku/lithium-ionen/18650/molicel-inr18650-p26a-36v-37v-2600mah-lithium-ionen-akku.html
and they have still to sell 1018 peaces.

My question was, does we can compare on mooch batteries website same like on dampfakkus?
Dampfakkus has only two of the mooch best mech mod batteries and only with a drain of 5A in their list:
http://www.dampfakkus.de/akkuvergleich.php?akku1=537&akku2=498&akku3=353&akku4=610&akku5=490&akku6=&a=5
Easy to see, moochs Samsung 25R is the second best after moochs Sony VTC5A ,
same on his website.
(the other 3 are the batteries which I use).

The graphic shows, there are 2 or more better batteries than which I use.
If the price is OK, why not buy the better battery?

Years ago I was thinking about springs and magnets,
but I dont think the main current is on the spring/magnet.
With 12A on the spring, your spring would glow.
#40 (permalink)      11/11/2021 6:39:33 PM US Central   quote/reply + tips
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Troepfler wrote:

^^
Thanks for explaining.
My view was, Amps destroy switches and not Watts.
And sorry, I still believe that.

We need an electrical specialist who tells us the whole story.




The intensity peak is proportional to the power, especially at start-up.The amperage of the current will be the highest, because it has gone from zero to one. it can double or triple just at that moment, and return to its initial consumption of the resistor once its inertia is established. For example, the three-phase eclectic motors at the time of their starting pass from "star" to "delta" mode in less than a few seconds because in star mode, it consumes less and once the motor is started, it passes to delta mode. This is a way to avoid a big consumption (so a way to reduce the amperage at high power). as on the trains, once started, they consume less when they are at cruising speed.

in fact the question is what would be the mechanical mod that has a switch capable of handling the high power peak? Or how to reduce this peak at the time of pressing?

#41 (permalink)      11/11/2021 7:04:39 PM US Central   quote/reply + tips
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zarck
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Troepfler wrote:

4.49 EUR:
https://www.ttt48.de/akku/lithium-ionen/18650/molicel-inr18650-p26a-36v-37v-2600mah-lithium-ionen-akku.html
and they have still to sell 1018 peaces.

My question was, does we can compare on mooch batteries website same like on dampfakkus?
Dampfakkus has only two of the mooch best mech mod batteries and only with a drain of 5A in their list:
http://www.dampfakkus.de/akkuvergleich.php?akku1=537&akku2=498&akku3=353&akku4=610&akku5=490&akku6=&a=5
Easy to see, moochs Samsung 25R is the second best after moochs Sony VTC5A ,
same on his website.
(the other 3 are the batteries which I use).

The graphic shows, there are 2 or more better batteries than which I use.
If the price is OK, why not buy the better battery?

Years ago I was thinking about springs and magnets,
but I dont think the main current is on the spring/magnet.
With 12A on the spring, your spring would glow.



You are correct... if you vape at 5A, but as you saw when you expanded the curves to higher current they start to act very different from each other at the higher amperage. That's because the batteries with higher storage are built with thinner material (which also gives higher internal resistance).

And yes, that's not the purpose of the spring that I'm referring to. If the spring is stiff and well it will move the pin that connects to the negative pole in a straight manner and also lands flat and allows for current to flow all over at once. if the pin is just slightly tilted, the current will start at one of the sides and you might not even get it to land flat on the pole.