Crispy critters "change the nature of a debate thread/ general rant thread"
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#1 (permalink)      3/29/2022 5:58:10 AM US Central   quote/reply + tips
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carrion4worm
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Crispy critters "change the nature of a debate thread/ general rant thread"
Here you go. You're welcome. don't have any idea what that weird "experiment" you childishly placed in "photo" thread has to do with anything we've ever talked about, but whatever. Explain it, or not, here. You can easily go back and read your original argument (it was you, not a "user",lol) since you've conveniently forgotten.

As I've said over and over, resistance is determined by the length of wire, not curly-Qs! To change the resistance the wire must be cut, lowering the resistance. Yes, moving the wire between grub screws is effectively changing the length also.

Please grow up, you're obviously just bitter, and you're out of control - cheer up, go do something else, have some fun. You don't want to be a contributing member here - you've made that point very clear.

And stop being a hypocrite, i.e., THIS TIME derailing a great, popular thread that you haven't participated in.

Jealousy/ anger is eating you alive...get it in check, dude.

Edited on 3/29/2022 at 6:38 AM. Reason:
What does he mean when he says words?
#2 (permalink)      3/29/2022 11:26:50 AM US Central   quote/reply + tips
Crispycritters
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Hi Carrion


The reason I asked for someone to do that was we have had a long standing argument.

This argument started when you ridiculed (DJVillan?) for a statement be made about adding a wrap.
When I replied that I do this routinely by using the excess leg length of packs of pre-made coils you threw all your toys out of your stroller and insisted the stated resistance is assessed by measuring the total length of wire used to make the coil, and not an assessment of what the resistance will be when the coil is fitted and of course the thread degenerated into a multi-post squabble and WE destroyed a thread by arguing.

In the Yihi thread you ridiculed Analogue man because you claimed 4 volts and a 1 ohm coil would result in hot legs/overheating so there is no way he needs more than 6 volts. As 4 volts with a 1.2 ohm coil will give a little over 13 watts 9perfectly reasonable for MTL, and 6 volts will give 30 (which is perfectly reasonable for RDL or lower powered DL IMO). This caused you to lose you rag as usual and claim my comment was really motivated by resentment about the old 'resistance argument' IT wasn't - it was caused by your inability to accept people have different preferences and using higher resistance kanthal round wire builds is still a preference of some and you chose to ridicule instead of asking why- and the thread had to be put back on course. Despite Geek's intervention you continued, I decided to transport the argument to YOUR THREAD. Then the argument died instantly - both the Yihi and your Vape Porn thread now continue without argument.

On the Vape Porn thread I asked for an impartial member to check what happens when you add an extra wrap to a coil to settle the ancient once and for all. Philip was kind enough to do this and it clearly shows that adding a wrap using the excess leg length will give a higher resistance. and it is the total length of wire held between the posts and not the complete length of wire used to make the coil that is the quoted estimated resistance on the packaging.

Philip's post categorically proves you were wrong, however your ego demands a "win" so you must continue at all costs.
However there are members here that can remember the 'resistance' incident so trying to rewrite history to prove you were right all along is futile as those that were there at the time will point and laugh at you.

If you must automatically ridicule at least check first or you will occasionally end up looking a fool, and if someone prefers something you don't try asking why and these pointless incidents won't happen.

I firmly believe your sole reason for starting this thread is to continue an argument that should have died 9 months ago but try to isolate it from your vape porn thread. Sorry Carrion but if you try to keep ancient animosities alive I will deliberately move your arguments to your Vape Porn thread. I am just as willing to either move on and let things go or fight and can be just as vindictive and stupid as anyone else.

I would prefer to move on, but I will let you chose on how we go from here. Hopefully we will both agree to stop.

Have a great day.
#3 (permalink)      3/29/2022 2:34:36 PM US Central   quote/reply + tips
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philipvdb
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I did one more which gave me this:
1. 5 wraps with ends of the wire just in the postholes: 1.02 ohm
2. 5 wraps with coil in normal position, so with excess wire through postholes and not cut: 1.02 ohm
3. 5 wraps , coil in normal position and excess wire cut: 0.88 ohm
4. Same length, 6 wraps with coil in normal position, no excess cut: 1.35 ohm

My conclusion here is: same wraps, excess before or after the screws gives same resistance. Cut the wires after the screws and resistance drops. Add a wrap with initial lenght and resistance increases.
We can't agree on everything.
#4 (permalink)      3/29/2022 3:29:01 PM US Central   quote/reply + tips
Crispycritters
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That is interesting philipdvd, and thanks for taking the time.

I have done the same, but first fitted the coil with the ends of the postholes and glowed the coil to bed it in - the resulting resistance once cool and bedded in was 0.85.

The I loosened the screws, slid the coil to the normal position and measured again and got 0.72 reading.

I repeated it by sliding out the coil until the coil was (almost) at the end of the uncut legs, measured again and got 0.83 (obviously the clamps weren't holding the coil in exactly the same position as I just moved it to approximately the original position.

Returning the coil to a more normal position close to the posts got the same 0.72 reading.

It is interesting that you got the same reading for both positions and I am curious if you glowed the coil or just fitted and measured.

As I have preposterous amounts of pre-made coils and spools of wire, and the coil I used was a cheapo Kanthal coil from a tub I'm unlikely to want to use, so wasting a coil for an experiment doesn't mean much to me as I probably won't live long enough to actually use them all. If you are in a similar position with building supplies I would appreciate if you could repeat it and glow the wires just out of idle curiosity. But if you don't have coils to spare, or simply can't be bothered it's all good.
#5 (permalink)      3/29/2022 11:07:21 PM US Central   quote/reply + tips
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carrion4worm
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You guys test away, but remember: the second you loosen the grub screws, the experiment is ruined. Be sure to use a long enough wire where you can make as many wraps as you desire, without loosening the grub screws. You can't put the wire back in " almost" the same place and expect the resistance to not change.

Also, while grub screws effectively change the length of the wire, as I mentioned in the original thread " electricity follows the path of least resistance"....while grub screws/ clamps mostly stop the current, some methods of coil fastening do a better job than others.

Any questions? Ask. While it may cause some here pain, I have the experience and know how, and have never steered anyone here wrong.
If you have forgotten, the proper experiment is documented perfectly in the original thread, which I forget, but it is a pre made Vandy vape coils thread...
Shouldn't be hard to find...

EDIt: and yes, starting the experiment with a brand new, unheated wire will skew results in most occasions...a preheated, used wire is best for testing, as anyone who's even coiled a few times will recognize the resistance "settling in" as it is glowed a bit, so don't start with new wire! Once you guys have your process in order, you will repeatedly obtain the same results - which is the beauty of science! that's why it's a "Law", not a "suggestion" or "hypothesis". I've been right (like so many other users here also from that thread) all along -- you just need to catch up! Finally, You're on the right track.

Edited on 3/30/2022 at 1:45 AM. Reason:
What does he mean when he says words?
#6 (permalink)      3/29/2022 11:11:47 PM US Central   quote/reply + tips
ericbnc
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Does this method work even for my Vivi Nova?

😊
Up (censored by PRC) creek with a 8 inch long piece of fecal matter for a paddle
#7 (permalink)      3/30/2022 1:39:29 AM US Central   quote/reply + tips
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philipvdb
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+3 details
So i redid the test with a better rda. The one i used before had hollow posts which maybe gave some bad results. Today i took the in'sane which is a lot easier and gives more accurate results. Measured using the coilmaster v2 with kanthal 28 awg without burning.
I'm doing this just because most of the times we take things for granted without testing.
Here are the results



The coil of the 5 wrap 1.21 and 6 wrap 1.45 were at the same position, just above the air hole meaning that the excess wire after the screws was less for the 1.45 coil or the length of the wire between the post was longer with 6 wraps. Hope this is clear.

Edited on 3/30/2022 at 1:50 AM. Reason:
We can't agree on everything.
#8 (permalink)      3/30/2022 1:56:30 AM US Central   quote/reply + tips
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carrion4worm
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philipvdb wrote:

So i redid the test with a better rda. The one i used before had hollow posts which maybe gave some bad results. Today i took the in'sane which is a lot easier and gives more accurate results. Measured using the coilmaster v2 with kanthal 28 awg without burning.
I'm doing this just because most of the times we take things for granted without testing.
Here are the results


Don't quite understand all your writing, but it appears you've still got some work to do, unless you guys are working on a different experiment not related to the "length/rtesistance" experiment I did a while back.

First, i would forget about the "wire past the grub screw" bit - it will change depending on atty, and really means nothing, since that wire will always be cut in practice.

The basis of the experiment is simple: grab a long wire, 4 or 5 inches, and clamp it down, basically making A giant "light bulb" shape over the atty. Quickly fire until the resistance shows, and note it.

Then, without changing ANYTHING, take a coiling rod and twist several "wraps" into the center of the length of wire. Doesn;t matter how many, the results will be the same AS the first time, without wraps.

Simple, easier than you guys are making it. Honestly, you both should know this already, but I appreciate Philip actually trying it...it's not hard, and gives users a better understanding of how things work!

Good luck!


Edited on 3/30/2022 at 1:57 AM. Reason:
What does he mean when he says words?
#9 (permalink)      3/30/2022 2:10:25 AM US Central   quote/reply + tips
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carrion4worm
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Found the photos from the original thread. Note the resistance doesn't change, the wire has not moved, or been repeatedly heated and cooled. The length is the same, and coil wraps of course have no effect. Using short wire skews results, as the wire/coil is being stressed/ pulled due to it's short length, and tension from the grub screws. That's why a long wire is needed, to avoid that unneeded tension/ movement at the grubs.


Second photo, after same wire has multiple wraps put in it.
What does he mean when he says words?
#10 (permalink)      3/30/2022 5:42:44 AM US Central   quote/reply + tips
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airwinny
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philipvdb wrote:

I'm doing this just because most of the times we take things for granted without testing.


So, if I understand your test correctly, if you trim off the excess leads, the resistance basically stays the same, no matter the number of wraps? In my head that makes perfect sense.

The other half of your drawing, the one with excess leads, makes no sense at all to my limited logic. With excess leads, the resistance increases with the number of wraps? That's such a fun discovery :)
I'll probably never fully understand electricity, but I'd love to read an explanation for that. Very interesting.

#11 (permalink)      3/30/2022 7:28:48 AM US Central   quote/reply + tips
Crispycritters
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philipvdb wrote:

So i redid the test with a better rda. The one i used before had hollow posts which maybe gave some bad results. Today i took the in'sane which is a lot easier and gives more accurate results. Measured using the coilmaster v2 with kanthal 28 awg without burning.I'm doing this just because most of the times we take things for granted without testing. Here are the results The coil of the 5 wrap 1.21 and 6 wrap 1.45 were at the same position, just above the air hole meaning that the excess wire after the screws was less for the 1.45 coil or the length of the wire between the post was longer with 6 wraps. Hope this is clear.



Thanks Phil. This clearly show what happens when a coil is fitted. It is interesting to see the results of clamping the same length of wire by the ends of the legs, adding a differing number or wraps and getting the same measurement, but it has no relevance to actually vaping as it is unlikely anyone would really fit a coil in that manner or be able to vape it as it probably wouldn't fit in the atty.

In the case of actuaslly vaping I imagine everyone would actually fit the coil properly and trim the legs so the results in the right hand column reflect the real life affects of adding wraps. Which I'm sure everybody already knows.

Hopefully this idiot argument is over.

If you want to keep it up Carrion - provide a link to THE THREAD - not to a SELECTIVE POST YOU ARE SHOWING OUT OF CONTEXT and anybody that cares can read how it started (and how stupid it became)